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From: kjfair@midway.uchicago.edu (Kenneth Fair)
Subject: Re: Puzzles, problem-solving, and IF
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References: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960405121744.28920B-100000@xp.psych.nyu.edu> <4k4nm8$t6i@life.ai.mit.edu>
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 23:53:07 GMT
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In article <4k4nm8$t6i@life.ai.mit.edu>, dmb@ai.mit.edu wrote:

>In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960405121744.28920B-100000@xp.psych.nyu.edu>,
>Roger Giner-Sorolla  <giner@xp.psych.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>>To sum up my views: an IF game without problem-solving elements is not an
>>IF game.  If it has no challenges at all, it is not a game, just a work of
>>IF.  
>
>Right.  But the central question is, do these things have to be games?
>Will "just a work of IF" interest people?  I think one could.


Most stories have a protagonist that the story revolves around.  Part of
what makes the story interesting is that there is a plot, i.e., stuff
happens to the protagonist.  Usually the plot is in the form of
problems for the protagonist to solve, adversities to be overcome, and
the like.  In a regular story, the reader watches the protagonist
solve those problems.  The setting is determined by the author, where
he places those characters and so on.

In "traditional" IF, the player becomes the protagonist.  She must solve 
the puzzles.  She also has some control over the setting by her actions
(go here, don't go there).

If you want to have IF without problem-solving by the player, then one
solution would be to have some other character do the problem solving.
This would mean that the player would no longer be the protagonist but
a sort of moveable camera.  You could either have the player tag along
as a sidekick to the protagonist, or you could allow her to roam the 
stage as a ghost, looking at what she desired while the action goes on
around her.  The main problem is that the player might miss crucial
parts of the story, unless you waited for the player to do something
(such as in Christminster).  All this, of course, requires extremely 
detailed NPCs.

I tend to think that such an approach won't be very successful.  What
would be successful, though, is to better blend the puzzles into
the story line to make it much more like problem solving of the sort
we do instinctually every day.  I think a large part of the problem
driving this discussion is that our models of the world aren't 
detailed enough yet.  If I can think of sixty different ways to do
some particular task that needs to be done, yet the game will only
allow one way to complete it, it seems artificial.  (For example,
why can't you dig a hole with the trowel in Lost New York?  You
certainly could in real life.)  But trying to anticipate every
possible response or action of the player becomes a nightmare.

Is there such a thing as a plotless story?  If so, how could that
be translated into IF?

Just a bunch of random thoughts,
Ken

--
KEN FAIR - U. Chicago Law  | Power Mac! | Net since '90 | Net.cop
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  "I'm sorry to have written such a long letter.  I did not have 
   time to write a short one."    - George Bernard Shaw
